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July 26, 2006

Comments

Christopher Culver

"When Gabriel told Mary of the future greatness of her offspring, he did not tell her, as is commonly supposed, that the child would be the 'Son of God', but promised that he would be called the 'Son of God'."

Do you know no Greek at all? Kaleo means not only "to call" or "to give a name to", but also "to address as". That the Church has always interpreted this in the sense that Christians are acknowledging Jesus' divinity, not just claiming him to be divine, is perfectly reasonable.

If all of your arguments are going to be based on English translations of the Bible, no one will take you seriously.

vynette

Christopher,

Thank you for your comment.

It does not, however, address the thrust of my argument. The semantic range of 'kaleo' is not the issue here. The issue is that others besides Jesus are 'called', 'addressed', or 'named' as 'sons of God'.

The term 'son of God' is NOT EXCLUSIVE to Jesus and, regardless of the churches' interpretation of it, cannot be used to acknowledge, claim, or ascribe 'divinity' to Jesus of Nazareth.

Another point I am making is that, in contrast to Gabriel's statement that Jesus would 'kaleo' the son of God, Jesus said others would 'esomai' the sons of God - a more intimate relationship.

Finally, it matters not one whit to me whether 'scholars' take me seriously or not. My responsibility is to 'prove all things'. What others choose to do with the information is their responsibility.

Christopher Culver

"The term 'son of God' is NOT EXCLUSIVE to Jesus and, regardless of the churches' interpretation of it, cannot be used to acknowledge, claim, or ascribe 'divinity' to Jesus of Nazareth."

Of course the term can be used in such a way. Regardless of whether Jesus is actually divine, it is still semantically possible to claim he is divine. You seem to know little of linguistics either.

"Finally, it matters not one whit to me whether 'scholars' take me seriously or not. My responsibility is to 'prove all things'. What others choose to do with the information is their responsibility."

If you are out to make an impression on people, and that's why one runs a blog, the best way is to NOT make nonsensical arguments.

vynette

Christopher

Jesus of Nazareth was despised by the religious establishment in Jerusalem because he did not belong to their 'select' community of scholars. I therefore feel myself to be in good company. Jesus also did not indulge in theological quibbling, he did not 'strain at a gnat and swallow a camel'.

I have stated elsewhere on this blog that I won't descend into theological minutiae but will concentrate on the big issues, the larger perspectives. Issues that can be readily understood by ordinary Christian folk.

Also, again, it is not my aim to convince or attract. It merely my responsibility to place these matters on PUBLIC RECORD.

JohnO

"When Gabriel told Mary of the future greatness of her offspring, he did not tell her, as is commonly supposed, that the child would be the 'Son of God', but promised that he would be called the 'Son of God'." -
This paragraph is absolutely meaningless and destroys any meaning of the text in Luke.

To be "called the son of God" means that you are the son of God. Otherwise he is wrongly being called the son of God. Do you wish to make that claim?

Of course "son of God" is not exclusive to Jesus - but that doesn't help any of your lines of logic here.

vynette

John,

I am merely pointing out that THIS PARTICULAR VERSE does not justify any claims about virgin-birth as others were also CALLED the sons of God.

Note when Jesus was declared to be the Son of God thus confirming the claims made during his lifetime.

"God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee."(Acts 13:33)

"concerning his Son, who was born of the seed of David according to the flesh, who was declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead..." (Rom 1:3-4)

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Tomlinson

  • "For that ye strove in neighbour love, it shall be written fair, But now ye wait at Heaven's Gate and not in Berkeley Square, Though we called your friend from his bed this night, he could not speak for you, For the race is run by one and one and never by two and two." Rudyard Kipling

Attributions

  • For Deborah 1963-2003
    "full of grace and truth"
  • And for T.M.Wixted 1889-1958
  • Certain material on this weblog has been adapted from works by E.P.Wixted, including The Race is Run.