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April 23, 2006



Well, for heaven's sake, where has this blog been the last 14 years?

It was that oh so devout Baptist Bill that started legitimizing this religious nonsense in our national dialogue.

Thank heaven someone intelligent has come along to throw some light on this dark subject.

Be certain many blog's readers will be directed to your site by farang.

Love is all there is....seems I have heard that somewhere else....sounds good to me, an old (but happy) non-believer.


Sheesh, have you even read the Bible, or did you just pick up the Cliff's Notes? Doctrine is just a codification of truth. Christ made any number of statements which can and must be taken as doctrinal.

It's not that Jesus Christ wasn't about love; He was (and is, and ever shall be) the ultimate expression of love. It's just that without understanding God's love, you get the kind of ishy-gooey feel-goodedness which results in people getting hurt.


It would seem from others' posts that you struck a nerve in the hearts of many dogmatic Chrsitians.

I left the Christian church at the ripe old age of 17 or so because of all the stretching they needed to do to create their dontrine.

As a Methodist, I first learned that Grace alone sets us free. God is judge, we are not. But then, as I got more mature, church leaders started adding caveats to this rule. Some things were wrong, others were right. If God alone is our judge, then how can it be right for us to make judgements on behalf of his Church? You and I might THINK we understand the Truth, but it is not our place to jusdge others' on it. It would seem to me that God's law could be different for different people. Is it not possible that a person with autism might not be held to the same standard of judgement as a person born with fewer challenges?

I'll drop from your belief that Christ is not God incarnate, if for no other reason than to quote conventional wisdom here. Christians often cite Christ's words that "no man can enter the Kingdom of Heaven except through me" as proof that Christianity is the excluseive door to Heaven, but they fail to really consider Christ's point at even a surface level. He never suggests that he will only allow his followers into heaven.

Near the end of the Book of John, Peter asks Christ about the nature of John's demise and says to him (paraphrased) "If I want this man to live until I come again, what is that to you? Follow me." In other words, my business with John is between us, your business with me is only to me.

Ironically, even there, the disciples of Christ start to read things into Chrsit's statements that don't concern them. THey whisper that John will be alive until Christ's return... but that's not what he says at all.

In conclusion, I think people who follow the doctrine of the established church fail to independently try to understand Christ's teachings. Those teachings would seem to me to allow for a lot of ambiguity in almost every area except hypocrisy and earthly judgement.

Vynette Holliday

Thanks for your insightful words Jonathon.

Even though, judging by the remainder of your comment that this is probably not a big issue for you, your statement that "I'll drop from your belief that Christ is not God incarnate, if for no other reason than to quote conventional wisdom..." needs to be addressed by me if for no other reason than to set the record straight.

My 'belief' is unimportant. What is important to me is to demonstrate that the records we have say exactly the opposite to that which Christian church doctrine says regarding Jesus of Nazareth's birth, 'deity', and etcetera. As to 'conventional wisdom', it is certainly 'conventional' but certainly not 'wise'.

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  • "For that ye strove in neighbour love, it shall be written fair, But now ye wait at Heaven's Gate and not in Berkeley Square, Though we called your friend from his bed this night, he could not speak for you, For the race is run by one and one and never by two and two." Rudyard Kipling


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